I saw a post in my Facebook feed from someone I know and love. The person used the header "Praise report" at the top of their post. I'm writing this as a blog post (instead of commenting on their post as I do with many people on social media) because I'm genuinely glad for the news that this person is feeling better, I suspect a comment of this kind would only serve to aggravate the person and not serve to shift their thinking on the subject, and I value the relationship that I have with the person more than I care about their reasoning or belief about supernatural things.
However, I know that other people believe similar things, and I am hopeful that by posting these thoughts here, someone might benefit. To preserve the identity of the person, I'm not going to share the exact quote, but rather the essence of their post. These were the basic elements.
Praise report
1. I had severe pain for days
2. I decided to go to the hospital
3. I received a diagnosis and treatment
4. The diagnosis was not grave and the pain has subsided with the treatment
I know this person well enough to know that the praise was directed to the Christian god. And all of the comments on the thread that gave thanks or kudos of any kind were directed at Jesus and the Christian god.
I see these things on Facebook and other social media all the time. Most of the believers I know acknowledge that the treatment in a case like this played a major part in the relief they experience. But they would also say that their god was responsible in some way. Jesus guided the doctor's, or blessed the treatment, or without Jesus, the scientists wouldn't have been able to figure out how to treat their problem. Here is the question I would like to prompt believers to consider. Imagine I told you the same story, but instead of the god you believe in, I gave credit to a lucky horseshoe, or magic crystal, or the position of the stars. Couldn't I receive the same treatment without those things and experience the same result? If so, doesn't that suggest that the superstitious object didn't really play a part? How could we figure out what percentage of the relief you experienced was due to the science-based treatment and what percent was due to the god or whatever other thing you want to give credit to?
If it wasn't true and your god really had no part in your situation, would you want to know? How would you figure it out? For the lucky horseshoe, most people who get that treatment don't use a lucky horseshoe, so it seems like leaving the horseshoe out wouldn't make the treatment work less. We could test it. With the god, I suspect the same treatment would work for patients and doctors who don't believe in the Christian god. I suspect it works just as well for them as it does for believers. On what basis can you say the god had anything to do with the relief you felt?
I hope this sparks a skeptical thought in someone who reads it one day. I see that people pop in and look through some of my posts. I would love to hear from you if you have read my post and appreciate what you have read, please leave comments or feedback. If you disagree or think I'm missing something, please let me know that too.
Cheers,
Gavagai
However, I know that other people believe similar things, and I am hopeful that by posting these thoughts here, someone might benefit. To preserve the identity of the person, I'm not going to share the exact quote, but rather the essence of their post. These were the basic elements.
Praise report
1. I had severe pain for days
2. I decided to go to the hospital
3. I received a diagnosis and treatment
4. The diagnosis was not grave and the pain has subsided with the treatment
I know this person well enough to know that the praise was directed to the Christian god. And all of the comments on the thread that gave thanks or kudos of any kind were directed at Jesus and the Christian god.
I see these things on Facebook and other social media all the time. Most of the believers I know acknowledge that the treatment in a case like this played a major part in the relief they experience. But they would also say that their god was responsible in some way. Jesus guided the doctor's, or blessed the treatment, or without Jesus, the scientists wouldn't have been able to figure out how to treat their problem. Here is the question I would like to prompt believers to consider. Imagine I told you the same story, but instead of the god you believe in, I gave credit to a lucky horseshoe, or magic crystal, or the position of the stars. Couldn't I receive the same treatment without those things and experience the same result? If so, doesn't that suggest that the superstitious object didn't really play a part? How could we figure out what percentage of the relief you experienced was due to the science-based treatment and what percent was due to the god or whatever other thing you want to give credit to?
If it wasn't true and your god really had no part in your situation, would you want to know? How would you figure it out? For the lucky horseshoe, most people who get that treatment don't use a lucky horseshoe, so it seems like leaving the horseshoe out wouldn't make the treatment work less. We could test it. With the god, I suspect the same treatment would work for patients and doctors who don't believe in the Christian god. I suspect it works just as well for them as it does for believers. On what basis can you say the god had anything to do with the relief you felt?
I hope this sparks a skeptical thought in someone who reads it one day. I see that people pop in and look through some of my posts. I would love to hear from you if you have read my post and appreciate what you have read, please leave comments or feedback. If you disagree or think I'm missing something, please let me know that too.
Cheers,
Gavagai
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteLOL
ReplyDeleteSeriously, your thoughts are a joke.
First, if God isn’t real, can you prove it?
Second, if God isn’t real, then why are you so infatuated with the Gospel of Jesus who is the Christ?
Third, if God isn’t real, then who created us and our planet and solar system?
Fourth, explain how the word “history” came about and what it means.
Fifth, Christianity is a life style, not a religion.
Sixth, since you are so hung up on what you call the Christian God, what about the Jewish God?
Seventh, and lastly, why do you try to tear down and ridicule Followers of Christ? It makes you look bad.
Dear Unknown reader,
DeleteYou said
>> If God isn’t real, can you prove it?
No, but do you think it's advisable to prove something isn't true until it is proven false? Can you prove that ghosts aren't real? Can you prove there isn't a society of intelligent purple tortoises that lives inside the core of the planet Saturn? Can you prove you didn't murder someone last year? Or referring back to the theme of this post, can you prove a baseball players lucky socks aren't the reason his team won the World Series?Isn't the proper time to accept a claim as true when good evidence has been presented to demonstrate the claim is true?
>>if God isn’t real, then why are you so infatuated with the Gospel of Jesus who is the Christ?
The reason I blog about this topic is because I live in a culture that is permeated with Christian beliefs. Those beliefs influence people decisions and behaviors, including the way they vote, how they understand humanity's place and role in the world, and frankly, I would prefer people's choices and actions to be made based on sound reasons and evidence over religious superstition.
>>if God isn’t real, then who created us and our planet and solar system?
If Thor isn't real, who made the thunder and lightning? Maybe it wasn't a who. I would like to suggest that your question is malformed here. What was the cause and do we have any good reason to believe there was an intelligence behind it? By asking the question "who did x" you are assuming it was caused by a thinking agent. People around the world used to attribute lightning and thunder and earthquakes and volcanoes to gods and goddesses. They would see soldiers on the battlefield clad in metal armor in a storm and lightning would strike that person. Seems like an intelligence picked out that one individual. That soldier must have made the gods angry to zap him with lightning. How can we appease the gods? Sacrifice something! When crops failed, people used to blame witches. Burn the witch. We have better explanations for these events now. They aren't caused by thinking agents. They are caused by natural phenomena. It seems probable to me that the cause of the solar system and universe and whatever else there is in existence came about through natural processes. And until there is evidence to suggest that a being capable of creating things like that is presented, the default position should be to assume there was not a thinking agent.
One more issue with your line of thinking here that was hinted at in my last statement. Something that does not exist cannot cause real things to happen. If a person is in the forest and they hear a type of animal vocalization they don't recognize or a boulder falls from a cliff and that person believes big foot is real, he might decide those experiences validate his belief that big foot is real. The big foot believer is crediting big foot with those phenomena. But if big foot isn't real, big foot cannot have caused those sounds or that boulder to fall. The time to believe that a big foot creature might be a possible cause is after you have established big foot is real with good evidence. To assert that a god could have created or likely created the universe is to assume that god exists. You are putting the cart before the horse.
I think I'm going to run out of space here, so I will respond to the rest of your challenges in a second reply...
...continuing from previous
ReplyDelete>> explain how the word “history” came about and what it means.
A quick Google of the etymology of the word "history" suggests to me that the English word is derived from the Greek words for narrative and wise man. What does that have to do with the question of whether or not a god is real?
>> Christianity is a life style, not a religion.
Religion is defined as the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. Christianity fits the bill. You might want to say it's also a lifestyle, but can you name a religion where that isn't the case?
>> since you are so hung up on what you call the Christian God, what about the Jewish God?
As I stated previously, I live in a culture that is predominantly Christian of one stripe or another. That is the religious belief I am confronted with as I drive around the city on billboards and church signs, I have family, friends, and coworkers who are Christians. I'm surrounded by people who hold those beliefs. It is also the religion I grew up believing, so I'm most family with that particular holy book as opposed to the sacred texts from other religions. Having said that, I don't believe in any gods or goddesses from any religion. I do have friends and acquaintances who are Muslim believers. I have had conversations with them about the Muslim god. When I visited Tanzania last year, I went to a mosque to play a sport called pickleball. There is an athletic club on top of a mosque in downtown Dar es Salam Tanzania and they play pickleball there. I made some friends playing. One of my new friends gave me a ride back to my hotel. He pointed out Hindu temples in the city and told me they worship idols there. I explained to him that I don't believe in the Hindu gods, but I also don't believe there are any gods of any kind including the Muslim god. He found this shocking. I don't believe he had ever met an atheist before. We had a civil and respectful conversation and we still keep in touch from time to time. I have blogged about Islam, but my knowledge of that religion is very limited. I don't personally know any practicing Jews, but my view of Judaism is the same as any other religion. I don't see any evidence for the existence of any god(s). I write about the ideas and arguments I encounter on a daily basis though.
>> why do you try to tear down and ridicule Followers of Christ? It makes you look bad.
You have misjudged my target. I am focused on the ideas, not the people themselves. The vast majority of believers I know are wonderful and caring people who happen to be persuaded that these superstitions are true. It is my hope that, like me and countless others around the world, their minds will one day be freed from these archaic ideas. We don't need religion.
You say that the God of Christians and Jews doesn’t exist; prove it! The answers you have given to your reader does not represent what Atheists believe. Even Atheism is a religion. If I was a Christian, I’d think that you’re nuts. You’re not an Atheist, you’re a Christian that has an anger issue with your god.
DeleteUnknown,
DeleteIt's as if you didn't read anything I have said in my replies.
>>You say that the God of Christians and Jews doesn’t exist; prove it!
I would point you to the first paragraph in my first response above. I can't prove that an invisible and undetectable god does not exist, but if your standard for believing things until they be disproved, then you will be stuck believing a lot of untrue things. Prove that you do not secretly have $600 million dollars that you are hiding from the government to avoid taxes. Should we hold you guilty until you prove you're not hiding that money?
>>The answers you have given to your reader does not represent what Atheists believe.
I'm an atheist, and these are the things I believe.
>>Even Atheism is a religion.
Not by any standard definition of religion. Look it up for yourself.
>> If I was a Christian, I’d think that you’re nuts.
Hmmm... What are you if you're not a Christian? What are your beliefs?
>> You’re not an Atheist, you’re a Christian that has an anger issue with your god.
Nice of you to tell me what I believe. I'm afraid you're mistaken. I don't believe in the Christian god or any other gods or goddesses, nor do I believe in magic pixies or little green aliens, etc etc etc.
Thanks for stopping by,
Gavagai